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	<title>Comments on: Singularity FAQ for Dummies</title>
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		<title>By: hoijui</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>hoijui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 04:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-22</guid>
		<description>talking about whether the SAI will be friendly or not:&lt;br/&gt;i just discovered Singularity today, so i didn&#039;t really read much about it so far, but.. thinking about it:&lt;br/&gt;Are we, as a SAIs in the eyes of chimpanzees friendly to them? or.. in the eyes of flies?&lt;br/&gt;i would say.. we don&#039;t care about them at all.. sure.. like.. one in a million goes to the jungle to live there and understand the monkeys... but in general.. they are uninteresting for us...&lt;br/&gt;if I imagine that all the humans live to care about the monkeys... cultivate bananas, feed them, make sure they wont get eaten by tigers and so on...&lt;br/&gt;And then... trying to imagine how the humanity lives just... to make life nice for some small flies or other insect...&lt;br/&gt;not really feasible, no?&lt;br/&gt;i think a SAI would just not care about us at all, and go for its own things... and if once the humanity will suffer from.. having no water cause the SAI needs all of it to achieve something it wants... why should it bother.... &quot;ouh... i would be able to do this very interesting and cool things with all the water... but wait... the little flies need it to survive... hmmm... [really cool thing which would increase my intelligence and knowledge and so on] VS [little flies], hmmm .....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>talking about whether the SAI will be friendly or not:<br />i just discovered Singularity today, so i didn&#8217;t really read much about it so far, but.. thinking about it:<br />Are we, as a SAIs in the eyes of chimpanzees friendly to them? or.. in the eyes of flies?<br />i would say.. we don&#8217;t care about them at all.. sure.. like.. one in a million goes to the jungle to live there and understand the monkeys&#8230; but in general.. they are uninteresting for us&#8230;<br />if I imagine that all the humans live to care about the monkeys&#8230; cultivate bananas, feed them, make sure they wont get eaten by tigers and so on&#8230;<br />And then&#8230; trying to imagine how the humanity lives just&#8230; to make life nice for some small flies or other insect&#8230;<br />not really feasible, no?<br />i think a SAI would just not care about us at all, and go for its own things&#8230; and if once the humanity will suffer from.. having no water cause the SAI needs all of it to achieve something it wants&#8230; why should it bother&#8230;. &#8220;ouh&#8230; i would be able to do this very interesting and cool things with all the water&#8230; but wait&#8230; the little flies need it to survive&#8230; hmmm&#8230; [really cool thing which would increase my intelligence and knowledge and so on] VS [little flies], hmmm &#8230;..&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sarahintampa.com</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>sarahintampa.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Wow...that&#039;s really interesting! And frightening!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;that&#8217;s really interesting! And frightening!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 04:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Many SAI must exist elsewhere, we are only on the verge of  contributing another, and seek to  have &quot;our&quot; SAI be &quot;our&quot; benefactor.   SAI is a tool, that colors a world of grey  shadows.  All efforts to inject our morality,  ethics and concepts of goodness  will utterly fail.  Free will rules.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; I  consider  possibly encountering  a or the SAI  not in  some  lab setting, and certainly not  in a gov facility. It might come riding up on a Harley  Davidson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many SAI must exist elsewhere, we are only on the verge of  contributing another, and seek to  have &#8220;our&#8221; SAI be &#8220;our&#8221; benefactor.   SAI is a tool, that colors a world of grey  shadows.  All efforts to inject our morality,  ethics and concepts of goodness  will utterly fail.  Free will rules.</p>
<p> I  consider  possibly encountering  a or the SAI  not in  some  lab setting, and certainly not  in a gov facility. It might come riding up on a Harley  Davidson.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-19</guid>
		<description>In the answer to, &quot;What can I do to help getting the Singularity off the ground?&quot;, you post the URL of a list - but that list can basically be summarized as &quot;get informed&quot; and &quot;advocate it&quot;.  In short, it says becoming a cheerleader is the only really effective thing you can do.  But we are talking about a technological change, one that will be brought about by human beings discovering and building.  Cheerleading, while useful, is far from the type of work that is most essential to bringing the Singularity about.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Granted, not everyone is a scientist or a developer capable of contributing directly to the technology.  Even so, wouldn&#039;t it make sense to describe what those who read this and are scientists or developers can do?  Or even how to become a scientist or developer capable of working on this (especially if one is a college student choosing a field of study, although there are also adult education options), so as to make a living by helping to create and shape the Singularity.  (Another audience would be people with funding that they would like to direct towards said scientists or developers.  Said funders rarely wish to support said efforts merely by giving money to cheerleaders.)  Advocating the support of something, without being able to point to specific, active projects trying to accomplish some identifiable component of that thing, can be worse than pointless: it&#039;s hype that doesn&#039;t actually affect any material thing, and sometimes even detracts from the projects actually trying to accomplish the intended goal.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;For example, what are some of the better (in terms of results obtained) programs that are currently reverse-engineering the human brain, or creating mind-machine interfaces, or working on the nanotechnology that will be necessary to develop those 10^14 ops per second CPUs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the answer to, &#8220;What can I do to help getting the Singularity off the ground?&#8221;, you post the URL of a list &#8211; but that list can basically be summarized as &#8220;get informed&#8221; and &#8220;advocate it&#8221;.  In short, it says becoming a cheerleader is the only really effective thing you can do.  But we are talking about a technological change, one that will be brought about by human beings discovering and building.  Cheerleading, while useful, is far from the type of work that is most essential to bringing the Singularity about.</p>
<p>Granted, not everyone is a scientist or a developer capable of contributing directly to the technology.  Even so, wouldn&#8217;t it make sense to describe what those who read this and are scientists or developers can do?  Or even how to become a scientist or developer capable of working on this (especially if one is a college student choosing a field of study, although there are also adult education options), so as to make a living by helping to create and shape the Singularity.  (Another audience would be people with funding that they would like to direct towards said scientists or developers.  Said funders rarely wish to support said efforts merely by giving money to cheerleaders.)  Advocating the support of something, without being able to point to specific, active projects trying to accomplish some identifiable component of that thing, can be worse than pointless: it&#8217;s hype that doesn&#8217;t actually affect any material thing, and sometimes even detracts from the projects actually trying to accomplish the intended goal.</p>
<p>For example, what are some of the better (in terms of results obtained) programs that are currently reverse-engineering the human brain, or creating mind-machine interfaces, or working on the nanotechnology that will be necessary to develop those 10^14 ops per second CPUs?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Spaulding</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Spaulding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-18</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t have time to read your whole article. However, your requirements that the hardware would have to be really fast, and software would have to be developed for this advanced intelligence is not a necessity. The fastest axons in the brain only conduct at a speed of a well-pitched baseball—much, much slower than even today&#039;s electronic circuits. And the brain has no software. It is obvious even now that its structure changes in response to the environment. A truly intelligent computer would have to be able to learn on its own, able to change its hardware through its sensory experiences; and thus, software would have no place in such a machine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t have time to read your whole article. However, your requirements that the hardware would have to be really fast, and software would have to be developed for this advanced intelligence is not a necessity. The fastest axons in the brain only conduct at a speed of a well-pitched baseball—much, much slower than even today&#8217;s electronic circuits. And the brain has no software. It is obvious even now that its structure changes in response to the environment. A truly intelligent computer would have to be able to learn on its own, able to change its hardware through its sensory experiences; and thus, software would have no place in such a machine.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan-Willem Bats</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan-Willem Bats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Many S-curves tied together make for an exponential graph.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;An ongoing exponential graph can flatten and turn into an S-curve once a certain paradigm runs out of steam. Then another paradigm picks up, and exponential growth continues.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;At this moment, it&#039;s really looking like nanotubes will be the sixth paradigm of computation, and there will no doubt be more in the future.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Not that we should be worrying about that right now, because nanotech can keep exponential growth in computing going for at least a few decades.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There is no wall in the foreseeable future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many S-curves tied together make for an exponential graph.</p>
<p>An ongoing exponential graph can flatten and turn into an S-curve once a certain paradigm runs out of steam. Then another paradigm picks up, and exponential growth continues.</p>
<p>At this moment, it&#8217;s really looking like nanotubes will be the sixth paradigm of computation, and there will no doubt be more in the future.</p>
<p>Not that we should be worrying about that right now, because nanotech can keep exponential growth in computing going for at least a few decades.</p>
<p>There is no wall in the foreseeable future.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-16</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to point out that Moore&#039;s Law is a large, cracked crutch that most of today&#039;s futurists rely upon heavily.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If it were shown that the computing industry no longer follows Moore&#039;s Law as we approach the fundamental limits of electronic switching, we would indeed have an &quot;S-curve&quot; instead of a singularity, which makes our near-future look a lot less interesting.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(Go here&lt;br/&gt;http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_11/tuomi/&lt;br/&gt;to understand what Moore&#039;s Law really is)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don&#039;t get me wrong, as a computer engineer, I&#039;m always trying to find ways to keep Moore&#039;s Law going for at least a little while, like turning to optics, but the success of my current company (and patents) in doing so is still questionable. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;SAI may still be possible in the near-future, but please do not blindly cling to Moore&#039;s Law to make your point. Advances unrelated to these trends are required before SAI can exist, and that is what you&#039;re really trying to predict.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to point out that Moore&#8217;s Law is a large, cracked crutch that most of today&#8217;s futurists rely upon heavily.</p>
<p>If it were shown that the computing industry no longer follows Moore&#8217;s Law as we approach the fundamental limits of electronic switching, we would indeed have an &#8220;S-curve&#8221; instead of a singularity, which makes our near-future look a lot less interesting.</p>
<p>(Go here<br /><a href="http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_11/tuomi/" rel="nofollow">http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue7_11/tuomi/</a><br />to understand what Moore&#8217;s Law really is)</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, as a computer engineer, I&#8217;m always trying to find ways to keep Moore&#8217;s Law going for at least a little while, like turning to optics, but the success of my current company (and patents) in doing so is still questionable. </p>
<p>SAI may still be possible in the near-future, but please do not blindly cling to Moore&#8217;s Law to make your point. Advances unrelated to these trends are required before SAI can exist, and that is what you&#8217;re really trying to predict.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan-Willem Bats</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan-Willem Bats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-15</guid>
		<description>&quot;These two concepts seem contradictory. Please clarify for me how we can predict anything about how an SAI will think about humans when we can&#039;t predict how an SAI will even think on the other side of the Singularity?&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;While we cannot think the thoughts of SAI after the Singularity, it is safe to assume that it will be friendly and humane, if it was friendly and humane BEFORE it was improving itself towards the Singularity.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is why Yudkowsky has come up with the idea of Seed AI. The seed, from which the tree grows, must, from the beginning WANT to be friendly and humane towards us.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It would also be nice if a Seed AI&#039;s goal would be something along the lines of &quot;make humans as happy as possible&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is safe to assume that it will remain friendly as it is growing, and also that it will not divert from its noble goal. Or at least... that&#039;s the plan of www.singinst.org.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Think about it: if you&#039;re a friendly guy, you&#039;re not just going to turn evil on your friends, right?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There&#039;s a good reason for that. Take yourself as an example: You have probably been friendly all your life, and as a result you have this behavior deeply ingrained. You might say that friendliness is hardcoded in the neural networks of your brain. If a Seed AI has neural networks like this, it&#039;s also not going to just turn evil. Just like you wouldn&#039;t.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Difference is... Seed AI would be able to reprogam its own neural network, where you can&#039;t.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So it&#039;s quite essential that a Seed AI doesn&#039;t WANT to reprogram its friendliness-configuration into an evil-configuration. ;)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Perhaps this has been thought over in more detail by Eliezer Yudkowsky of www.singinst.org. Check there if you want to go into more details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;These two concepts seem contradictory. Please clarify for me how we can predict anything about how an SAI will think about humans when we can&#8217;t predict how an SAI will even think on the other side of the Singularity?&#8221;</p>
<p>While we cannot think the thoughts of SAI after the Singularity, it is safe to assume that it will be friendly and humane, if it was friendly and humane BEFORE it was improving itself towards the Singularity.</p>
<p>This is why Yudkowsky has come up with the idea of Seed AI. The seed, from which the tree grows, must, from the beginning WANT to be friendly and humane towards us.</p>
<p>It would also be nice if a Seed AI&#8217;s goal would be something along the lines of &#8220;make humans as happy as possible&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is safe to assume that it will remain friendly as it is growing, and also that it will not divert from its noble goal. Or at least&#8230; that&#8217;s the plan of <a href="http://www.singinst.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.singinst.org</a>.</p>
<p>Think about it: if you&#8217;re a friendly guy, you&#8217;re not just going to turn evil on your friends, right?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a good reason for that. Take yourself as an example: You have probably been friendly all your life, and as a result you have this behavior deeply ingrained. You might say that friendliness is hardcoded in the neural networks of your brain. If a Seed AI has neural networks like this, it&#8217;s also not going to just turn evil. Just like you wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Difference is&#8230; Seed AI would be able to reprogam its own neural network, where you can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s quite essential that a Seed AI doesn&#8217;t WANT to reprogram its friendliness-configuration into an evil-configuration. <img src='http://technutnews.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Perhaps this has been thought over in more detail by Eliezer Yudkowsky of <a href="http://www.singinst.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.singinst.org</a>. Check there if you want to go into more details.</p>
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		<title>By: michael vassar</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>michael vassar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-14</guid>
		<description>You know, Kurzweil&#039;s view of the singularity, Smart&#039;s view, Vinge&#039;s view, and Yudkowski&#039;s view are all radically different.  Also, Yudkowski is the only one of the four to present a concept with no large and obvious logical flaws.  The others may be useful for getting people used to thinking about stark unimaginable change, but should not be looked to for details.  E-mail me at michaelvassar@hotmail.com if you are interested in my explaining the differences in detail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, Kurzweil&#8217;s view of the singularity, Smart&#8217;s view, Vinge&#8217;s view, and Yudkowski&#8217;s view are all radically different.  Also, Yudkowski is the only one of the four to present a concept with no large and obvious logical flaws.  The others may be useful for getting people used to thinking about stark unimaginable change, but should not be looked to for details.  E-mail me at <a href="mailto:michaelvassar@hotmail.com">michaelvassar@hotmail.com</a> if you are interested in my explaining the differences in detail.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://technutnews.com/2005/07/18/singularity-faq-for-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technutnews.com/?p=4#comment-13</guid>
		<description>You state:&lt;br/&gt;&quot;We cannot possibly predict what an SAI would come up with at &#039;the other end&#039; of the Singularity. We are not superintelligent ourselves.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You also state:&lt;br/&gt;&quot;But an AI will do nothing more than try to find a way to complete the goals it has in mind, just like a human being does. But where human beings feel the need to reproduce as much as possible by getting a social status as high as possible, an AI does not necessarily have to posess these desires. It won&#039;t unless we build it so.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;These two concepts seem contradictory. Please clarify for me how we can predict anything about how an SAI will think about humans when we can&#039;t predict how an SAI will even think on the other side of the Singularity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You state:<br />&#8220;We cannot possibly predict what an SAI would come up with at &#8216;the other end&#8217; of the Singularity. We are not superintelligent ourselves.&#8221;</p>
<p>You also state:<br />&#8220;But an AI will do nothing more than try to find a way to complete the goals it has in mind, just like a human being does. But where human beings feel the need to reproduce as much as possible by getting a social status as high as possible, an AI does not necessarily have to posess these desires. It won&#8217;t unless we build it so.&#8221;</p>
<p>These two concepts seem contradictory. Please clarify for me how we can predict anything about how an SAI will think about humans when we can&#8217;t predict how an SAI will even think on the other side of the Singularity?</p>
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